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Taiwan

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According to Wikipedia, Taiwan is a Chinese island. I wonder how much the Chinese government paid Wikipedia to put THAT lie up and then lock the editing tool. 2603:8080:D9F0:7610:2872:D4AF:AFFE:85AE (talk) 03:31, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence says it's a country. If you wish to make changes to the article, request them here instead of directly editing the article. win8x (talking | spying) 03:33, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The only mention of China in the first sentence is in the phrase "Republic of China". Which is the formal name of the country as defined by its own government. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think he might be referring to the article on zhwiki. 2601:647:4401:9EB0:F4C4:AFDD:306A:85C9 (talk) 01:55, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(zh:台湾) 2601:647:4401:9EB0:F4C4:AFDD:306A:85C9 (talk) 01:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

why not add "de facto"?

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The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
This RfC is malformed per WP:RFCNEUTRAL, tendentious, and clearly contradictory to strong existing consensus (cf. the actual argumentation underlying WP:TWRFC). It's clearly either negligent or trolling, and there's no procedural necessity in further entertaining either tendency. Remsense ‥ 论 14:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New to Wikipedia, and why not describe taiwan as de facto country? i searched the archives of this page and its seems theres nobody disagree the facto statement of taiwan. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 11:25, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Slatersteven (talk) 11:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Taiwan has all the infrastructure of an independent country but only a dozen nations recognise it as such 103.190.179.16 (talk) 11:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, in law it says it is, so does that mean De Jure? This is the problem, it is not like Sealand, it was an independent nation (and member of the UN), it is not in fact a self-declared entity, but a remnant. Slatersteven (talk) 11:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So, u mean.. Taiwan is a rump state? 103.190.179.16 (talk) 11:45, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Its rather more complex than that, in fact it is very complex, but yes it is (almost, but not quite) a rump state. Slatersteven (talk) 11:54, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is very complex as you said, but why can Wikipedia simply describe Taiwan as a country? The consensus formation process above looks like the result of polling and I found an article named Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion while exploring somewhere. is it appropriate 103.190.179.16 (talk) 12:06, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can (and are) discussing it but wp:consensus is also in play, If no one agrees with you you can't just refuse to accept it and continue to argue your case (see also wp:bludgeon). Slatersteven (talk) 12:11, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because there's no reason to do that. Remsense ‥ 论 14:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And with that I have had my say, time for others to have theirs. Slatersteven (talk) 12:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Most countries are de facto countries, but that term is usually used for breakaway states that never achieved recognition. That is not the situation for Taiwan, so rather than try to summarise the situation in two words, almost 200 words forming the longest paragraph of the lead are devoted to the topic. CMD (talk) 13:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That term is usually used for breakaway states that never achieved recognition. How did you get that? 103.190.179.16 (talk) 13:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of reading into the topic at various points. CMD (talk) 13:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And you know, Taiwan, is commonly referred to Republic of China after retreat. in this way Taiwan seemly has never achieved recognition and more like a breakaway state from historical RoC 103.190.179.16 (talk) 13:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
and it doesn't say that summarising the situation in two words and 200 words forming the longest paragraph of the lead are devoted to the topic can't coexist 103.190.179.16 (talk) 13:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well i see that ones who replied here are ones always taking part in editing this article. this may lead to maintaining the status quo. what about inviting more editors of other topics to see more opinions?103.190.179.16 (talk) 13:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem would be wp:canvassing, now you could start an RFC. Slatersteven (talk) 13:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
START, not turn this into one. Slatersteven (talk) 14:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Footnote: sometimes country, sometimes state?

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Not all sources listed here call it a country. (eg 2nd and 4th) 103.190.179.16 (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In casual English most people will not distinguish between the two terms. 01:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC) CMD (talk) 01:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i think it may be better to delete some of the sources that don;t call it a country. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 13:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About RoC after retreat?

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This turned into quibbling about Taiwan being referred to as a country. We're not relitigating that. Remsense ‥ 论 11:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why not explain it like this?
This article is about the Republic of China after retreat. For the mainland era, see Republic of China (1912-1949).
Taiwan only refers to RoC after retreat. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 01:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's no reason to, and it is wrong. It is about both the present country of Taiwan, and the contiguous ROC. Republic of China (1912–1949) is a subarticle detailing the mainland period. Remsense ‥ 论 02:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why wrong? Before the retreat no one treated Taiwan as a country. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 14:48, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No they treated the ROC as a country, that country still exists, as it is the official name of the country often called Taiwan. Slatersteven (talk) 14:51, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Taiwan is not simply the common name. If that is the case, we wouldn't create a page called Roc 1912-1949. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 12:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? The period in which the ROC was much larger than Taiwan would not be sensibly covered in an article on Taiwan. The ROC is the same state/government, but it has represented two different countries over its history. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:51, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, this article is about Taiwan. Post 1949, the history of Taiwan is that of the ROC. Prior to 1949, we cover the ROC (and China in general) only to the extent that it pertains to Taiwan. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:25, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should make this articulation much more clear, perhaps put it in an FAQ at the top of the page. Remsense ‥ 论 19:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. That's the point. But i don't see a statement like this in the article. The article only says Taiwan officially Roc. 103.190.179.16 (talk) 12:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because Taiwan IS the ROC. Currently. Every country article covers the history of the area before the actual country government existed, just like this one does. What problem are you trying to address? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:47, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The logic I believe is the ROC has continued to exist. There are not two different countries before and after 1949. This topic is still the ROC. Its title was moved to Taiwan to reflect modern usage, and pre-1949 content was split but still summarized here. Vacosea (talk) 20:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"There are not two different countries before and after 1949." There most obviously are. A huge country spanning much of a continent and a tiny island country cannot seriously be considered the same country. Same state, yes. Same country, don't make me laugh. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:01, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 October 2024

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"ROC" redirects here. For other uses, see ROC (disambiguation).

Thatdordrechtguy (talk) 11:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: per the last RfD on Talk:ROC. Hyphenation Expert (talk) 12:40, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LATEST GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT

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According to latest IMF publication 2024 , Taiwan Data are as Follows
$1.840T ~ GDP PPP
$775.02B ~ GDP NOMINAL
$79,030 ~ Per Capita PPP
$33,230 ~ PER CAPITA NOMINAL

Would you update that Aguahrz (talk) 05:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind not WP:SHOUTING? THERE IS NO REASON There is no reason for writing in all-caps. Thank you. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
okay, But that's rude🙄 Aguahrz (talk) 10:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Put this notice into Note 27

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The definition of Taiwan has always been controversial. Some readers may think that Wikipedia wants to participate in the controversy by describing Taiwan as a country. Most readers will not click on the talk page, so informing them in the note at the bottom can let them know that Wikipedia remains neutral. 62.192.175.202 (talk) 12:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think this is helpful at all, because this is an encyclopedia article. Wikipedia presents facts, and there is no need to preempt people perceiving those facts as controversial with a separate note. The note is appropriately placed on the talk page. Butterdiplomat (talk) 21:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with 62. I don't think there is a "fact" in this political topic. To say it a country is just our decision, not a "fact". 36.230.24.108 (talk) 15:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is certainly one reading of facts. You can say that about any other country. Butterdiplomat (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are quite a few people who would say that Taiwan is not a country, but countries like the United States would not be said like that. 36.230.24.108 (talk) 16:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that Taiwan’s status is disputed is referenced extensively both in the intro and rest of the article. That does not change its functioning, history, cultural standing as a country, however. Butterdiplomat (talk) 16:38, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

About RoC after retreat? 2

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I think it is a good idea to make this articulation much more clear, but the discussion was closed. 36.230.24.108 (talk) 16:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it was closed it was closed for a reason, and you have added nothing new. Slatersteven (talk) 16:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This turned into quibbling about Taiwan being referred to as a country. But the original idea is great i think. 36.230.24.108 (talk) 16:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Consider reading WP:BLUD. Butterdiplomat (talk) 16:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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